Blog Entries

Monday, 25 January 2010

  • Clergy Killers

    I missed you all!

    Many thanks to Brett and Eric and others who weighed in on my message asking for resources and information on 'clergy killers'. I also had a question from someone who never heard the phrase, so here is how I define it:.

    'Clergy Killers' are people who exercise their dysfunctions by abusing and bullying their clergy. I have friends on this site who have been through serious emotional and spiritual pain because of the power families in the church trying to dominate and manipulate them. I have a friend in real life now being put through the ringer by some genuinely toxic persons who have no real fruit in their lies, and they substitute for that lack of fruit by flexing their spiritual muscle and jerking the pastor around.

    I can't get inside their heads, but I guess they have a need to feel important, or they have unresolved resentments against God or authority figures and the closest proxy they can find for the object of their resentment is the man who is up there in front of them every week trying to minister to them. The pastor is an easy target, because they know it's his job to love them, be patient with them, and be forgiving. That's too tempting and easy a mark for a toxic bully to pass up.

    That's my take, anyhow, based on what I've seen in real life. What have you seen? How do you explain the way these people behave?

Monday, 29 June 2009

  • Did Jesus ever say......?

    Mr. Darcy made an interesting observation to me about the substitutionary atonement (the idea that Christ died to pay a debt to God for our sins on our behalf.) It was that he couldn't remember anything that Christ said to God, either in His Last Words or in His great priestly prayer before His arrest, or other prayers, that said anything about paying our debt to God for us.

    He said things like 'I pray that "that they may be one, even as we are one." ' And 'forgive them for they know not what they do.' But not, for instance, "I go now to pay you the penalty for their sin and satisfy Your anger against them.'

    Can any of you find any of the conversations Christ had with the Father where He talked about paying our debt to God? Or anything that kind of sounds like it? I ask because I am a bit lazy, and also because I'm pretty sure it's not there, so why bother looking.

Monday, 22 June 2009

  • A Ransom

    Christ was the ransom. We know that. But to whom did He pay that ransom? Most of us learned that Christ paid it to God to appease His wrath. But the church fathers say He paid it to our great enemy, Satan, to buy us back from the slavery we had sold ourselves into.

    Just a quick verse or two for you to think about:

    Psalm 107

       1O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 2Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;


    Psalm 136

       23Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: 24And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

    Why is this on a religious abuse site? Because I think our view of God powerfully affects how we behave to one another. It is human nature to emulate what we worship. We learn God's attributes and try to follow in His pattern. If God is just, we try to be just. If God is truthful, we try to be truthful.

    On the other hand, if one of God's attributes is that He holds onto anger against His children when they do wrong and cannot let it go until a great payment has been made to Him, then isn't it natural for our religious leaders to tend to take on harsh judgmentalism? Isn't it natural for them to tend to magnify our sins rather than overlook them, and for them to demand great, visible shows of penance for our sins. Isn't it natural for them to tend to hang onto our sins until they feel 'satisfied.'? In a sense, I can hardly blame them.

    I remember the reaction of one very judgmental man to someone's sin. The sinner's friend said to him, "Look at the situation he was in. Can't you kind of understand how he ended up doing what he did?" The judgmental man went ballistic. He was terrified of the idea of softening somone's offense. He had to be as harsh toward the sin as he could possible be, because he was afraid that he wouldn't be in agreement with God if he went easy on anyone's errors. That's what you get if take to heart the idea that God is so offended by our sin that He cannot even look at us until we're covered over by the infinite suffering of Christ.  

    But if our God is a forgiving God, a God who has pity on His children and goes on a great heroic quest to rescue then from their captors, well then, think how differently our religious leaders would act. They would tend to be gentle, patient, heroic themselves. They would forgive sins instead of magnifying them. They would encourage us instead of beating us down. Here's another Psalm passage for you:

    Psalm 25:7:
       7Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O LORD.

    Have a great week.

Thursday, 18 June 2009

  • The Atonement--A Legal Arrangement?

    The first place I want to start in our discussion of the atonement is with the idea that most of us have been taught--that the atonement is a legal arrangement made between God and Christ and us. The teaching goes like this (please correct me if I get it wrong.):

    We are all sinners and stand condemned in God's sight.
    This lays a debt on us that is too great for us to pay.
    God cannot forgive us without payment of this debt.
    Christ offers to pay the debt for us, and does so on the cross.
    Christ's death is accepted as payment on our behalf.
    God can now forgive us.

    The church fathers didn't see it that way at all, and neither did the great reformer Luther. Luther saw the law as an insurmountable obstactle to our relationship with God. It can never lead us to salvation (as I'm sure you know Paul teaches as well.) So if law can never lead us to salvation, how can a legal arrangement between Christ, the Father and us lead us to salvation? Aren't we still caught and enthralled to the law? I think so!

    The Christus Victor idea of atonement tells a different story. It tells us that God looked down on us with love and pity, seeing our enslavement to Satan, sin and death, and knew that the law was just a snare to us--unable to lead us out of bondage. Unwilling to leave us in that condition, He broke into the word. The Divine entered the creation and took on the form of broken humanity to do battle with our captor, Satan. He was taken by him even into death, from whence He broke open the tomb and broke the chains that Satan ensnared us with and with which he even tried to put around the Holy One. He defeated Satan and the grave once and for all. He didn't follow the law, he transcended it, as only God can. He showed us what the law was for: to teach us what Perfect Love looks like.

    Now we are free from the need to earn our salvation. We can follow His law of love, since now we know what it looks like and that it is powerful even over death. If we were saved by a legal arrangement, as most of us have believed, no wonder we are so easily entrapped by abusive religious authorities. If we are saved by law, they can hold the law over our heads. They can threaten us with judgment as 'representatives' of God. Then can set laws for us and mediate between us and God. And we let them.

    But, if we recognize that we are saved by a heroic act of God, a God who does not condemn us but sacrifices Himself for our rescue, then who can put us in bondage again? Who can threaten us? God took sword in hand and slew our enemy--if we know that, then nobody can enslave us ever again. Nobody can tells us "But you are imperfect and sinful, you may not really be saved," because our sinfulness did not put God off before--it caused Him to pity us and rescue us.

    Nothing can separate us from the love of such a God.

    Thank God and enjoy His freedom.

     

Saturday, 13 June 2009

  • What or Who did Christ Save us From?

    (This is what I've been up to while I've been away from Xanga.)

    We have probably all learned that our sins are so black that God can't look on us or forgive us, so Christ had to die to pay our debt of sin to God. Christ had to cover us up so God wouldn't be offended by our sins when he looked at us.

    This is an orthodox, acceptable, well-thought-out view of the atonement, but it's not the only one. The early church fathers give us a different view of the atonement, one that predates the 'substitutionary atonement' doctrine by hundreds of years, and I'd like to share a bit of it with you. I do this because all of us who have suffered from religious abuse have had ideas like the one above held over our heads by our abusers. They scared us with images of a wrathful, displeased God. They reminded us what miserable, sinful beings we are. They basically kicked the stuffing out of us when we tried to defend ourselves, because, after all, if we're so bad Christ had to be killed to pay God off to save us, then we have no business defending ourselves at all.

    The early church fathers had a different view. It was victorious, triumphant, joyful, exciting, dramatic and freeing, and all of this without minimizing the reality of sin and our need for salvation. They just see salvation differently. Their idea of salvation is more like what we mean when we say "I was saved from a fire" or "I was saved from kidnappers." This is difficult stuff and we'll have to have many conversations about it to flush it all out. I look forward to it.

    Let's look at Mark 3:27: "No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. "

    Here's what Irenaeus has to say about this passage (thanks to Mr. Darcy for finding this commentary):

    The adversary enticed humanity to transgress our maker’s law, and thereby got us into his clutches.22 Yet his power consisted only in tempting the human will toward trespass and apostasy. With these chains he bound up the human will.23 This is why in the economy of salvation it was necessary that he be bound with the same chains by which he had bound humanity.24 It would be through a man that humanity would be set free to return to the Lord,25 leaving the adversary in those bonds by which he himself had been fettered, that is, sin. For when Satan is bound, man is set free; since “none can enter a strong man’s house and spoil his goods, unless he first bind the strong man himself.”26 It is in this way that he became exposed as the opposer of the Word who made all things, and subdued by his command. The new man showed him to be a fugitive from the law, and an apostate from God. He then was securely bound as a fugitive, and his goods27 hauled away. These goods are those who had been in bondage, whom he had unjustly used for his own purposes. So it was a just means by which he was led captive, who had led humanity into captivity unjustly. In this way humanity was rescued from the clutches of its possessor by the tender mercy of God the Father, who had compassion on his own handiwork, and gave to it salvation, restoring it by means of the Word, Christ, in order that humanity might learn from this actual event that they receive incorruptibility not of themselves, but by the free gift of God.28 Against Heresies 5.21.3.29

    I'd like to talk about this further in another post.



    22 22 Cf. Gen 3:1–6.

    23 23 At issue is why in the plan of salvation it was necessary that the devil be bound up by one truly human.

    24 24 Namely, through his own twisted willing.

    25 25 Cf. Rom 5:18.

    26 26 Mt 12:29; Mk 3:27.

    27 27 Humanity in bondage.

    28 28 Cf. Rom 5:16.

    29 29 AHR 2:383–84; ANF 1:550**. As Satan had unfairly led humanity into bondage of the will, so the God-man had fairly bound up the will of the strong man.

MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy

  • Visit MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy_MrsDarcy's Xanga Site
    • Name: Mrs. Darcy
    • Gender: Female
    • Member Since: 10/8/2006

About Me

  • This site is specifically to offer my observations and advice to people caught in abusive or unheathy churches, or who are happily escaped but still suffering. My journey has been a long one, but most blessed and not over yet. I hope I can bless you, too.

Weblog Archives

Don't worry - your calendar is here… to see it in action just click "Save" above and refresh the page.

Quotes

There are things we can know for certain, but people who have God all figured out, boxed and wrapped neatly with a bow are dangerous people. -- Lonnie

If your morals make you dreary, depend on it, they are wrong. -Robert Louis Stevenson, novelist, essayist, and poet (1850-1894) (thanks to Roland Drake)

"...those who do not think about their own sins make up for it by thinking incessantly about the sins of others." --C.S. Lewis

"Forgiveness doesn't erase the past, it expands the future."

"Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option." --Author Unknown

"People like me are the prey, not the problem." --shannydokes

"It is better to be envied than to be pitied" --Heroditus

"You lead by example, whether you want to or not"

"Failing to forgive someone is to allow them to live in your HEAD rent free."--TheEvilNosredna

Older Blog Entries

Puritanism--the haunting fear that someone somewhere may be happy

Arrogance and Cowardice

Shunning: Tell Me Your Story

Fear, Compulsion and Religious Abuse"

The Price of Leaving

Don't You Mind People Grinnin' In Your Face

One Year Anniversary--Turning Point?

To Be Seen of Men

Condescension

The Golden Rule

Purity Police

Sexual Failings in the Church

Character vs. Compliance

Good Guys and Bad Guys

Gatekeepers--Making Your Atonement

Gatekeepers

Confronting Your Abusers

Harry Potter and the Religious Abusers

Refugees

The Cycle of Pride, Shame and Abuse

Train Up A Child

Shame and Abuse: The World Turned Upside Down

Shame and Abuse

The Difficulty of Reconciliation

Normal Human Decency

What's So Abusive About Abuse?

Why Spiritual Abuse is Called Abuse

When Good Words Go Bad--"It Grieves Me"

When Good Words Go Bad--"Repentance"

When Good Words Go Bad--"We Do This Out of Love"

Sin Part 3--'Yes, But...' Forgiveness

Status and Control: Gossip as the Secret Police

Gossip--Trying To Figure It Out

Great Sermon Online--Warning Signs

'Respected' Leaders

Four Red Flags

Public Sins and Public Confessions

Status and Control: You'll Leave When I Say You Can Leave

Morality Is Not a Trick Question

Accountability Part III--Sleight of Hand

Friendship With the World

Unity

Pointing the Way to God--Part 1

The Charitable View of Unhealthy Churches

Sin part 4: Outrage or Compassion?

By Their Fruit Ye Shall Know Them
The Big and the Small

Status and Control: Let us help you--or else!

Accountability Part II—Judging the Heart

Accountability Part I--Who Owns You?

Christianese and Manipulation

Pastoral Care--The East German Model

Status and Control: Making Friends Choose

Status and Control

Arrogance

Faith and Works

Re-posted: "I'm more pious than you."

Answering Questions: What Is Spiritual Abuse?

When Good Words Go Bad--"Biblical Churches"

Long Time No Blog (a personal favorite of mine)

Sin Part 2: False Confession

Sin Part 1: What's it to ya?

A statement from Judith Regan

When Good Words Go Bad--Accountability

Discipline

An Admission

Gays are not the enemy

U2 in Worship

What is the Sabbath for?

Prayer requests as cover for gossip

The Law or Your Neighbor?

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism

Justification--the proof

Struggling in Vain

Paul vs the Gospels

“I’m more pious than you”—language cues

The reason for this site